Grudge Match

erolunai · **Joined:** Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:55 pm **Posts:** 6

Sir Real wrote:

erolunai wrote:

"Ridley is kind of the only Nintendo villain who's ever done anything really awful"

...umm.

UMM.

There are a ton of horribly evil Nintendo villains, many of whom are way worse than Ridley.

Dark Samus/Metroid Prime infected multiple planets with Phazon, decimating the populations of local life forms and horribly mutating the survivors, driving many of them mad. It also caused the deaths of three of Samus' closest friends/allies.
Hades from Kid Icarus Uprising started a massive war and then harvested the souls of those killed in the conflict.
Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness murders countless innocents over the course of two thousand years in an effort to summon a malevolent elder god.
Ashnard from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance starts a huge war and enslaves Rajaion, the prince of Goldoa.
Majora's Mask caused the deaths of two revered heroes (and it's implied that it killed the Deku Butler's son), paralyzes an innocent old woman and leaves her in the Woods of Mystery to die, convinces a band of pirates to steal a Zora woman's eggs, turns a man into a child just a few days before his wedding, resurrects the population of Ikana so that they can suffer in undeath, calls down the moon to destroy Termina, and gets the Skull Kid blamed for all of this.

That's just to point out a few. I'd mention the villain of Xenoblade Chronicles, but that would get into major spoiler territory.

Oh, of course there are plenty of villains who have done absolutely horrendous things, probably worse than Ridley.
I just wanted to call attention to one in particular... who's already sort of in smash bros , and... I seriously can't think of someone who's done worse than what he did...

I mean, sure, you could just cite any nintendo villain that has directly or indirectly killed any number of innocents...
but those will usually be a few steps removed from the player's experience, y'know?
i.e. seeing a human getting poof'd in a giant battle that you're not taking part in... certainly it's tragic, but it's a step removed from your current situation...
being told that this guy has done this horrible bad stuff, again, they're bad for it, but...

Well, I'm trying not to go into spoilers, again, just wanted to point to one of the worst, for those who get the reference, I suppose <<;

AquaBat · **Joined:** Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 2373

I really doubt this needs to be tagged but I don't want any whining so I will anyway.

He attempted a human sacrifice and failed, then let loose an Eldritch horror that he could barely even control in the end.
Then he became king of the pig people and wanted to become immortal and watch the world be destroyed. He also got really fucking old because he abused time travel.

Ridley is a flying death machine that killed Samus's parents and would gladly kill them seventeen times over, along with anyone that stands in his way. Ganondorf has killed quite a few people to get where he is. Hell, Dedede sends a bunch of defenseless blobs to fight his archrival, and Kirby gladly picks them off and munches on them gleefully, all thanks to Dedede. At least the pop flyin' Happyists and Pigmasks put up a fight.

Porky is low on the list.

BeretCat · **Joined:** Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:43 pm **Posts:** 13

AquaBat wrote:

I really doubt this needs to be tagged but I don't want any whining so I will anyway.

He attempted a human sacrifice and failed, then let loose an Eldritch horror that he could barely even control in the end.
Then he became king of the pig people and wanted to become immortal and watch the world be destroyed. He also got really fucking old because he abused time travel.

Porky is low on the list.

Well, he might not be the most evil or effective of villains, but he's really good at making people hate him
Considering he killed Lucas' mother, (which drove his father to basically abandon him), then proceeded to destroy the world of Lucas' childhood, brainwash his neighbors, torture thousands of innocent animals, imprison the town's elders, and force Lucas to fight his missing (and brainwashed) twin brother Claus to the death, resulting in Claus' suicide.
He's easily one of my most hated Nintendo villains

SwitheKun · **Posted:** Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:22 pm

kefkaesque wrote:

I'm not exactly an expert on Star Fox lore, but isn't Pigma the one who caused James McCloud's death?
IIRC he only met and signed up with Wolf after the fact.

Yeah i knew about the Pigma thing, there was some connection connecting his death and star wolf, figured id got some crossed wires somewhere or mixed up wolf and star wolf, lol. Still, there's a connection somehow.

I should stop posting when im sleepy ._.;

ShinZero · **Posted:** Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:31 pm

Sir Real wrote:

You're forgetting the Oracle games and Link's Awakening, but I guess that's okay, because apparently Nintendo has as well, hence why they were massively retconned. But I guess you're right, Ganondorf is horribly evil if you consider that; if his actions lead to the existence of A Link Between Worlds, that makes him one hell of an evil bastard.

I'm not going to get into all the other franchises mentioned in your post, no matter how much I love Eternal Darkness and am secretly writing detailed essays to replace the lacking articles in its wiki. I loved Link's Awakening, and its ending depressed me for weeks when I first beat it as a child.

The Oracle games were admittedly a missed opportunity. Both games could have been happening at the same time in different timelines which momentarily converged to defeat Ganon and it would have been brilliant. But it wasn't. It was handwaved as one happening after another. Nintendo doesn't exactly write flagship titles to be constrained by logical chronology or for the most part a strong franchise Codex, so what can you do. I would sell my bone marrow to see Bioware take a crack at any of Nintendo's long-running franchises, because Sonic Chronicles had the best story I've ever seen.

As for Link Between Worlds, I genuinely enjoyed that game. It raised underlying questions of fridge logic which left me doubtful about whether or not the Hylian Royal Family was doing more harm than good in the long run. I mean, I remember reading that about seven generations passed between Link to the Past and Link Between Worlds, and I haven't seen technology or the citizenry's standard of living improve at all between the two. But I do better not to ask myself those questions.

Obnosim wrote:

Obnosim's Other M Edit

Samus is going to have a hard time living that down. The BABY Metroid. The Bottle Ship being shaped like a BABY bottle. Its most urgent distress signal being dubbed "The BABY's Cry", because it is meant to attract as much attention as possible (Which I thought was the point of a distress signal in the first place). The boss Nightmare making BABY wailing noises once its faceplate is shattered.I mean shit, way to beat something to death.

Emperor_Z wrote:

Wind Waker question. Were the people of Hyrule still alive and in stasis when it was sealed? Kinda threw me off when the King just decided to drown the place at the end because its time for the kids to inherit the world and shit

No, Hyrule Castle was the only location other than Ganon's Tower that was affected by the stasis bubble, and had already been overrun with monsters by the time. Anyone who got left behind drowned in the initial flooding, before the stasis bubble formed around Ganon's Tower and Hyrule Castle. After Link gets time to flow again, Ganon gets released of some of his restraints and manages to expand the stasis bubble between Hyrule Castle and his Tower, which allowed him to release a few Peahats, and explains why you can see a field pretty far off while in the Castle bridge. Every other part of Old Hyrule is flooded and gone.

GUIGUI wrote:

Did he? didn't he obliterated them both with his Lazermouth? Unless he licked the Ashes, I don't see how it could be possible.

To be honest, I read it in the Metroid e-manga, which is dubiously canon. And Ridley never proved that he ate her parents, he just claimed that he did to mess with her. He was injured in the raid that killed her parents and claimed that eating corpses allowed him to re-purpose cells in them for his own body and thus regenerate. Plus, a charred corpse can still be eaten.

Kaiden wrote:

You guys didn't seriously forget Ocarina of Time and how everyone in Hyrule Castle Town is a Zombie right?
They're most definitely dead and for one good reason.

It's been theorized that they were actually purely made from magic, since every town person you meet is alive in Kakariko when you wake up seven years later, and those you don't see appear in the credits celebrating. But those theorists forget the shopping crowds that you don't see again when you were a kid.

Perplexate · **Posted:** Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:40 pm

If ya want to get into technicalities, Ridley was technically a character in the Smash Bros series, just not a playable one. Similar to Porky, who were both just bosses in Brawl.

I wonder if the characters that do have their arch enemies on the roster with them would even care that they're there. Y'know, considering all the bad stuff they may of may not have done. Maybe it's just an excuse to beat the crap out of each other endlessly.

Lykas · **Joined:** Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:58 pm **Posts:** 8

long time reader, first time poster, this topic of people killed has been missing one particular checkmark on Gannondorf's list.

Immediately after Zelda and Impa flee the Castle Market area with Gannondorf giving chase in Ocarina of Time,

Go into the back alley, you'll find a soldier laying on the ground, he talks about how the princess mentions you and then falls still and silent...

It's not explicitly said, but it's explicitly implied that he died of wounds Gannondorf gave him, especially since he doesn't move or respond and Navi simply states the obvious "he's not moving anymore." So yeah, in Ocarina of Time, Gannondorf kills someone and lets the person die right in front of Link.

RubyTheMaster · **Joined:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:38 pm **Posts:** 281

It's so perfect wow
That panel with Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and Toon Link
wow
*Head explodes*

pokemoron · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 21

RubyTheMaster wrote:

It's so perfect wow
That panel with Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and Toon Link
wow
*Head explodes*

I love that everyone is having this long debate about nintendo villains (that i didn't read) and you're over here like AWWWW

I like you

Asbestosis · **Joined:** Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:55 am **Posts:** 20

erolunai · **Joined:** Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:55 pm **Posts:** 6

AquaBat wrote:

I really doubt this needs to be tagged but I don't want any whining so I will anyway.

He attempted a human sacrifice and failed, then let loose an Eldritch horror that he could barely even control in the end.
Then he became king of the pig people and wanted to become immortal and watch the world be destroyed. He also got really fucking old because he abused time travel.

Ridley is a flying death machine that killed Samus's parents and would gladly kill them seventeen times over, along with anyone that stands in his way. Ganondorf has killed quite a few people to get where he is. Hell, Dedede sends a bunch of defenseless blobs to fight his archrival, and Kirby gladly picks them off and munches on them gleefully, all thanks to Dedede. At least the pop flyin' Happyists and Pigmasks put up a fight.

Porky is low on the list.

You can make anything seem "low on the list" if you underplay them like that and completely ignore what they do and exaggerate others.
What, Ridley is a flying bird skeleton that roars a lot and is just there to look creepy.
Ganondorf is a clumsy comedy of villain who keeps getting killed off by a little kid.
Dedede? Pff, he's practically Kirby's -friend-.

Of course I don't believe those villains are insignificant like that, just like you can't convince me that Porky is.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:56 am **Posts:** 31

It sorta writes itself...

AquaBat · **Joined:** Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 2373

I never said he was insignificant. I just think you're oversizing him. oh my gosh he did horrible horrible thiiiiings just like Ridley, Ganondorf, Chancellor Cole, Darth Vader, Eggman, Magneto, the Joker...

erolunai · **Joined:** Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:55 pm **Posts:** 6

Alright, so...
Porky sides with their world's embodiment of evil to cause an apocalypse, orchestrates the killing of Lucas's mother, brainwashes and experiments on Lucas's brother, forces him to fight Lucas and ultimately ends in making Lucas watch his brother die.

I'm not saying he's this ultimate, perfect villain, I'm just saying, he's done some -horrible- things.
Ridley killed Samus's parents?
Porky killed off Lucas's mother and made Lucas cause his own brother's death.

So no, I don't see how that's oversizing him at all, and yes, he did something just as bad if not worse than Ridley.

AquaBat · **Joined:** Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 2373

Ganondorf manipulated Link and Zelda into opening the Door of Time for him, and he also deliberately allowed Link to purify the temples knowing that it would draw Zelda out of hiding.

He killed many people in cold blood with his own hands.

I'm pretty sure the only people he DOESN'T bother to brutally murder are Link and Zelda, and only for the reasons stated above.

Most of the darkness in the Zelda series can be linked back to him.

He didn't need the ultimate evil to help him because he was the ultimate evil.

If anything, every villain has a story, and none of them should be heightened or lowered. Can we agree to that?

AWKWARD ZOMBIE

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